Spicefactory

[nor]

Hi everyone.

tl;dr: What do you think about donating Parsley/Spicefactory to the Apache Software Foundation (ASF)?

Background: There has been a discussion on the Apache Flex dev mailing list if Swiz could and should be donated to ASF. Swiz is currently abandoned by it's original authors and there no active development going on, so it's pretty much in the same state as Parsley. Long story short, eventually it has been decided that Swiz will be integrated as a Flex optional component (like FlexUnit). That means it will not be integrated into the Flex SDK but available from the Apache Flex project.

Naturally, there have been some concerns on how this would impact all the other IoC/decoupling frameworks out there. People might think that Swiz is the endorsed framework, as it is hosted along with Flex itself, even if stated otherwise somewhere. However, it is possible to have other IoC frameworks along Swiz. So getting Parsley under the roof of Apache Flex might draw some new attention to this great framework and might even get some new development started.

As a Parsley user and lover I don't like that there will be no further development here, at least that's what it looks right now to me. So this might be chance.

What do you guys think? Jens, if you're still around, could you give a statement, please?

Anyone here?

[Jens Halm]

Honestly, I think moving Parsley to Apache is a very bad idea. Why this big procedural overhead when, as of today, no-one is around who is willing and being capable of continuing the work?

The project is on GitHub. If someone would want to revive it, he/she would just fork it and start to work on it. It is unrealistic to find more than two or three people who have both the time and experience to work on such a large framework. And even for that, I don't see it happen, tbh. And GitHub definitely gives the lowest barrier for actually starting with it today without further ado.

Also, there is simply nothing in Parsley which could be "donated". Adobe needed to make a donation due to licensing and IP issues. As for Parsley it is already released under the very license used by all Apache projects, too. So anyone could legally move it there without me doing anything.

But again, I don't think it is a good idea. It is an unrealistic assumption that such a mere formal move would cause magic to happen. If there are people around who'd like to continue the work it just would happen naturally, and most likely right on GitHub like with many other relevant OpenSource projects today and where most devs have already an account and know how to contribute and communicate on that platform.

So realistically, in my eyes, Parsley at Apache would decrease the likeliness of Parsley getting revived.
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Jens Halm
Spicefactory

[rattkin]

-- snip --
Here was my negative opinion on current Apache Flex progress. I've decided to remove this bit. It wasn't necessary for the purpose of this topic. My take on this can still be read at apache flex dev forum.
-- snip --

I second Jens's opinion. Parsley is quite complete as it is today and since the code is available, we can always introduce some changes. In fact, I've build numerous enhancements for Parsley over past years and some of them are shared and some of them will be shared. I don't think we need another party being involved in this process.
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Sebastian Zarzycki
Feerie Software

[masuland]

Are we "nerd" driven or "business realistic" driven? Comments on that at the Apache Flex mailing list ...

http://markmail.org/search/+list:org.apache.incubator.flex-dev#query:%20list%3Aorg.apache.incubator.flex-dev+page:1+mid:nl27uurkony5c4q6+state:results

Cheers
_________________
Looking for a Login Example with Parsley? Please check out this code:
http://code.google.com/p/masuland/wiki/LoginExample

[rattkin]

Sigh. Not sure who started that topic, but I assume it was you? I would consider this at least inappropriate, for the lack of the better word, especially that I was not informed. This is not the first time, so /golfclap.

That's really not the place to start another flamewar and drag it through spicefactory forums. I certainly don't want it and don't have time for it and I guess Jens would also prefer to keep this away from these forums. Please honor this.

My opinions are my own and my response referred to your original post with appropriate context. I agree with Jens, that no other move is needed (he already did everything that made sense) and that Apache won't improve on this. That's all.

I might respond on Apache list, but even the mechanism for doing so is quite archaic, so not sure if I will be able to get in.
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Sebastian Zarzycki
Feerie Software

[Jens Halm]

Just a very short comment from my side:

Note that rattkin's and my reply had a different emphasis. I did not criticize what Apache is doing with Flex at all, simply because I'm not following close enough for even being able to judge.

My view that Parsley is just well placed at GitHub in case anyone wants to pick it up, stands completely independent of what is going on with Apache Flex. If "donating" to Apache would require some legal/formal steps from my side, I'm not going to do it, as I don't see the point. It's OpenSource, it's Apache-licensed, and it's on GitHub, when that does not trigger revival, a move to Apache would not do that either.
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Jens Halm
Spicefactory

[masuland]

Dear Jens, feel free to do whatever you want to ... and what is best for the Apache Flex community. Here is a comment from Alex Harui about the legal stuff at Apache ...

http://markmail.org/search/+list:org.apache.incubator.flex-dev#query:%20list%3Aorg.apache.incubator.flex-dev+page:1+mid:c255vxqygihhxemm+state:results

Hope this helps
_________________
Looking for a Login Example with Parsley? Please check out this code:
http://code.google.com/p/masuland/wiki/LoginExample

[masuland]

Btw ... I would want to see that Parsley, Spring AS and Swiz etc. should be under the Apache Flex umbrella, because, they are pretty much business relevant for our Apache Flex community. On the following site I have tried to explain the reasons for it ...

What's wrong with Flex?
https://code.google.com/p/masuland/wiki/WhatsWrongWithFlex
_________________
Looking for a Login Example with Parsley? Please check out this code:
http://code.google.com/p/masuland/wiki/LoginExample

[Jens Halm]

I fail to see how the question whether Parsley is still "business relevant" is related to my argumentation.

First it is a fuzzy, relative term, but at least there is a lot of evidence that the "relevance" of Parsley is dwindling rapidly, if you take several typical indicators: number of downloads, number of page accesses of Parsley documentation, blog posts mentioning Parsley, etc. And yes, this started way before I announced to stop working on it and is more connected to the relevance of Flex being in constant decrease. In fact, my announcement had very little effect on the speed of this decline.

But my main point is: I don't see how Parsley code catching dust at Apache adresses this "relevance" more than it catching dust on GitHub. And if you think that simply moving it there will suddenly magically cause more people to chime in and contribute, I think this is a myth and mere wishful thinking, and that was precisely the point I made in my previous comments.

So my personal preference would be not to see Parsley at Apache.
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Jens Halm
Spicefactory

[Jens Halm]

On a final note: It is not my intention to boycot or block anything, I just don't think moving Parsley to Apache does make any sense. There are even more reasons for that view than those I provided so far.

If there are many people at Apache Flex thinking this position would seriously block anything, please let someone contact me directly, I'm happy to further explain why I think it's a bad idea.
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Jens Halm
Spicefactory